Fast or Faster? Playing with fire. [Archive]

cdog4w

08-05-2005, 08:41 PM

Can you give some specifics about the motor LBRC, enough for me to google and find some? I need an extra motor for the spare gearbox I have, so they don't have to be huge performers (yet). I'm going to take a stab at building a custom chassis to screw the gearbox down to. Not quite sure what I want to do in the front yet, but it should be fun brainstorming it :) Might take a stab at hand fabbing my own kingpin/knuckle design. I also have the extra PCB/Servo/Encoder but no extra servo gearbox. I also have a burned out DRR servo that I might be able to use and shrink if I remove the board etc.

So anyway, it sounds like HO slot motor is what I want to look for? Just want to make sure I get the right thing :)

LBRC

08-06-2005, 03:41 AM

Ouch I see the shop doesn’t have any of the Epoch motors, the problem is that without rewinding and adjusting the timing a slot motor will be way too slow and/or current hungry. I could build one but it would be a bit spendy besides I only ordered enough parts for research not a lot of spares. I’ll see what I can find and PM you.

USATorque55

08-06-2005, 06:03 AM

Well, I'm really not sure i want much.

Between the turbos out now, 4 cells... we have enough speed. Maybe something more efficient. Get more runtime..., more power withuot sacrificing runtime or anything.

With a turbo like the 4562 things or say ph2ts Bug turbo, would i have any restraints on running motors?

Guess I'm asking the wrong people...

LBRC

08-08-2005, 02:30 AM

Just finished a 4 cell with a turbo, and true it’s plenty fast.

For efficiency:
Ball bearings with a balanced armature, and with this type of motor a precision alignment job on the can (strap).
http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/Epoch-Motors/bb_bal_arm.jpg
To take it further awhile back over at R7R and TinyRC I posted some ideas and experiments with shaved magnets, I’m still working on it. The idea is to find a better balance between the magnet strength and the number of turns.

cdog4w

08-08-2005, 10:08 PM

Man, I googled HO slot car motors for a while and there is so little info on them. Most look like the epoch motor, but then list a small set of cars that the motor is compatible with. Also, seems difficult to find full motors, much less find bearing "cans" etc. Plenty of places sell custom arms etc. but those are no good to me w/o the rest of the motor!

LBRC, I've always wanted to try winding my own motors (just for the hell of it), would this be a good type of motor to play with it on? I was thinking of grabbing a few stock epoch motors from buck on ripper (only place I know of selling epoch stock motors right now) and then picking up this http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=278-1345
set of magnet wire to wind with? I will be building a turbo very soon so hopefully I shouldn't blow out my board. That being said, no reason to tempt fate, if I hook up the motor through my meter and test no load current draw, will I be able to discard windings too intense for the stock/turbo'd cars? Perhaps attach a load somehow for more realistic testing?

Also, does radioshack sell the connectors you chop to make your super micro connectors from? Haven't been able to find the socket side of your connectors online, but I want to use them not only on my epochs but on my lap timer so I can plug/unplug components like lasers/ir sensors more easily (and your plugs sound like the should be cheap enough to make in quantity). Gonna go browse the local RS to see what they might have worth chopping.

LBRC

08-09-2005, 02:36 AM

The Epoch motor is a little small to practice winding on, it would require more turns than a 130 for a Mini-Z or Xmod which is what I would suggest starting on, that said you probably wouldn’t want any wire larger than AWG 34 for an Epoch, and might even be happier with 36 or even 37 gage.

I doubt that RS would have any circuit board headers, it would take a real electronics supply store, I’m sure one of the online suppliers like Digi-Key would have something.

Unwinding the motor a few turns at a time would be one way to see what happens, but there are drawbacks. The big one for any small motor is that you have to resolder the wires back on the comm and they don’t hold up very well to repeated attempts, the solder also unbalances the motor and since it’s so small any little change causes an inversely large reactions. Also when you decrease the number of turns, allowing the motor to draw more current, without increasing the wire size for less resistance the motor can get quite hot. BTW that's a good reason not to use the RS wire even if it was the right size, you really should use wire rated at 180C as a bare minimum, preferably 200C+ for hot motors anything less and the insulation tends to burn off, when they don’t list the temp. rating for enamel wire it’s usually a bad sign.

Man I sound all negative, it would really help if there where a few more people out there experimenting with Epoch motors. I gave up trying to buy and find slot car motor parts for the Epoch over the internet it’s just about imposable even with a good idea of what you are looking for, too many options in too many different custom sizes, I’ve spent over $200, waited 2 months for it to be made, and ended up with nothing usable. The parts are categorized just like a real car you have to know the make, model, and year of the slot car you are buying a part for and even then they are usually not actually in stock but made to order, and since we don’t have a slot we are seriously handicapped. Shoot just like for a real hot rod they even sell books telling you how to modify parts to fit your car. The best thing to do is go to a major slot car swap meet, but even then if you forget to bring an epoch you will be met with blank stairs, and when you bring up those infamous letters “RC” you can be met with down right hostility. I have developed a slight distortion of the truth, never lie its untruthful, which implies that I want to modify my Epoch to run on the track, implying a slot car track without a power supply or wires, which just makes me crazy not the enemy.

A good place to find high quality magnet wire at a reasonable price is eBay since there are people auctioning off/selling end-rolls. It isn’t that good wire is hard to find it’s just that it can be frustrating since a 1,000 ft. roll would be considered a very small roll to a supplier.

mod_o_matic

08-09-2005, 03:41 PM

I would be happy to try and help but i don't have 200 dollars :( I think i will check out some slot car stores to find some motors..but sadly i don't have an epoch yet either :(

cdog4w

08-09-2005, 07:49 PM

arch2b

08-10-2005, 01:43 AM

i hope you can find something :p

epoch1-43

08-10-2005, 07:07 PM

Would it be difficult for you to include the plugs you have going on with yours? So switching motors would be easier. Those plugs are nice and small.

LBRC, can you give us a quick explanation of how to fabricate these?

LBRC

08-11-2005, 01:41 AM

http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/Epoch-Motors/Connectors_004.jpg
Find desirable size PC board headers (the hard part)
Clip with small nippers (between pins for male in center of third pin for female)
Sand excess edges off female
Solder wires
Cover bare wires and tabs with heat-shrink tubing (red for +, black for -)
Use a single piece of larger heat-shrink for added strength and durability, covering the connector body and part of the smaller heat-shrink over the tabs.

Monouk

08-11-2005, 02:04 AM

Hook us up! Where did you get those? Think that a couple of these would work just as well for making a removable / swapable turbo setup? I was looking at the deans micro plugs...both the 2 and the 4 pins but those things are so expensive and probably too big in the long run.

LBRC

08-11-2005, 07:17 AM

http://www.scaleauto.com/bsrt/arm_prod.htm
http://www.scaleauto.com/bsrt/spud_mot.htm

I went to the order page, apparently these guys are in redmond. Not too far for me. Dropped an email asking if the have a storefront etc, if so I might be able to bring my epoch in and fit it for parts etc.

Will post again if/when I get more info.

Have to find a link to TinyRC or R7R for the original Spud threads I use BSRT parts for most of my motors, that’s why my first Epoch motor was called the "Spud" because it's based off of a custom Spud arm.

The 37, 36, or 35 gage spinner can motors will work but you will have to cut down the arm both in front and back (being very very careful not to ruin the balance or even destroy your $30 investment) they will also need a turbo and LiPo's would be nice for the amps when starting out. The 34 is a little too hot so you'd need a very good turbo and 290 LiPo pack at a minimum to get runtimes over 5 to 10 minutes. Note the numbers refer to the wire gage not the winds, each motor is wound with the corresponding wire until the rotor is full, by increasing the wire size there are fewer turns. I am fairly sure that the Bug will handle the 35 to 37, not so sure about the 34.

BTW the spinner can motors are very nice if expensive, they come with the gold plated contacts an a superb balance, no ball bearings but the end-bell bushing floats for better alignment. So just incase someone wants to try one please remember that you absolutely must use a tool (can be made out of a paperclip or purchased) to spread the brushes when removing the arm, if not you will break the brushes and condemn your motor to the trash. Have been working on a tut but it won’t be done any too soon.

Hook us up! Where did you get those? Think that a couple of these would work just as well for making a removable / swapable turbo setup? I was looking at the deans micro plugs...both the 2 and the 4 pins but those things are so expensive and probably too big in the long run.

You make them, that’s what the above post shows how to do. As I said here:
I doubt that RS would have any circuit board headers, it would take a real electronics supply store, I’m sure one of the online suppliers like Digi-Key would have something.you get the headers from electronic supply stores or on-line suppliers.

If you look at the first photo in this thread you will notice that the tubo can be removed, however the tubo's do not connect to the motor output so you would need an additional connector and jumper to bypass the turbo connection after you removed it. I have a test car that does just that it can be run with or without a turbo.

cdog4w

08-12-2005, 12:27 AM

My reply from scale auto is below, looks like I'm going to have to make an appointment. Hopefully if I show up in person they can help me find something appropriate and maybe even get a RTR motor for us that you can order from them - but I haven't asked them about that yet.

Greetings Charles;

Thank you for the inquiry. Sure, you can come by our shipping facility
(sorry, no store front any more =^< but call ahead and schedule something
with us) We probably have what you are looking for in our HO motor
selection. call 425-868-8862 10 AM to 5PM Mon to Thursday to make
arrangements....

Looking forward to serving you in the near future. Let us know if we can be
of further assistance. Happy racing!

Scale Auto
web site: www.scaleauto.com <http://www.scaleauto.com/>
e-mail ?s or orders to: order@scaleauto.com <mailto:order@scaleauto.com>
fax: (425) 868-9865 (24 hours/7 days)

P.S. Our regular business hours are Monday through Thursday 10 AM to 5 PM
PST.

crazydave

08-12-2005, 12:38 AM

Well if you're asking what I'd like to see. I'd like to see practical power in the midband. Top end is no good unless you're racing large tracks with lots of straights, or a large oval, and that's not me. Off the line power is a good thing, but realistically, it only helps at the beginning of the race, unless you wreck alot.

Lower midband power is what you need to pull out of the corners quickly after slowing for the corner. Also I like a motor with a higher speed in the upper midband power area, rather than an ultimate end all top speed that takes too long to reach..

LBRC

08-12-2005, 02:36 AM

That’s exactly what I’m asking, and your answer is much appreciated.

I can get motors that will fit made that’s the easy part, the hard part is making a motor that’s a real improvement, and gives you what you are really looking for.

Someone will say fast but not how fast, and at what expense, nothings free so you have to sacrifice either low end acceleration, or battery power (run time) for max high end speed. Low end acceleration sacrifices either battery power or top speed. You can make it nice and linear with supper powerful even acceleration and nuclear speed but the cost is a 4 minuet run time and easily overheated batteries, with mandatory turbo’s.

I would like to know:

Stock? Or Turbo?
Three cell? Four cell? Or LiPo?
Run time? 5, 10, 15, how many minutes? (forever is not an option)
What’s more important acceleration, or top speed?
Where do you want the acceleration, low end, middle, top, or even.
What order of preference for the above, some combinations just aren’t possible.
Where would you use the motor most, kitchen floor, tennis court, track? How big of an area?

For example I’ve been driving mostly on a 10 x 20 high traction foam track with 2 foot wide lanes, but it has been temporarily paired down to 16 x 6. With a turbo - LiPo and turbo - 4 cell cars a faster motor would be useless I need a better more efficient motor so ball bearings, a balanced arm with tuned comm, and a good set of brushes is just right. Espically with a choice between a 7 or 8 tooth pinion gear.

Drag racing on a tennis court would be another matter. You’d want a motor that would go as fast as possible in 40 feet, hopefully with enough run time to do it more than once.

The challenge is a motor that would meet CD’s requirements with a stock CB, stock batteries, and using the stock charger and still retain some semblance of run time.

Wire gauge/number of turns verses magnet strength, and commutaor lead (timing) are the three variables. Of the three timing and magnets are the big obstacle when trying to adapt high voltage slot motors to low voltage Epoch applications. There not bad when they get going but they will suck your batteries dry if you have to stop and start too often. You’ll be flying around the track at good speed and should have plenty of juice left but if you have to stop you can’t get started again.

arch2b

08-12-2005, 03:24 AM

this has to be one of the most detailed discussions i've ever read for an epoch :p

i would agree with crazy dave. something faster but mid range not top end because typically you never have the room to reach it.

so long as the run time says above 3 minutes i'd be happy. i'm lucky to get 5 as it is.

LBRC

08-12-2005, 05:15 AM

Why’s your epoch only getting a 5 minute runtime?
Darn now I have to break out a stock Epoch and charger, it’s been so long since I’ve used an Epoch charger I can’t remember how long you should be getting.

crazydave

08-12-2005, 06:25 AM

Yeah with the stock charger I'm only getting about 3 minute runtimes. I double charge and I'm getting 5 or maybe a little more. The batteries start to warm with a double charge, but I'm they could take more. Also I think the stock charger is charging way too fast, causeing the batteries to warm prematurly.

I got the 4th cell, and turbo soon to follow, but runtime is still gonna be an issue with me, until I save up for a good charger.

But wouldn't you say there are some mods you can do to a motor that are just more efficient and should add a little to speed, power and possibly runtime too. Stuff like say bearings, trueing the comm, or balancing the arm.

USATorque55

08-12-2005, 07:41 AM

I dont know about this guys... Cars arent fun when they're too fast. I imagine a 4 cell and turbo is too fast already.

I learned alot from my micro. CF race chassis w/ an overgeared mamba on 8 cells. 40mph on an 1/18th car isnt much fun. At certain speeds the car would lift off the ground. Trust me, efficiency before stupid speed.

Moral of the story... I got rid of the micro and the brushless is now undergeared in my Mini-T. Now speed is that of a Beast, but it will run cooler and 4 times as long.

LBRC

08-12-2005, 09:42 AM

I just got 8 minutes on the track using a brand new stock car with the Epoch charger and a AC power supply, and 13 on the next run using the triton set at 0.4 amps and 5mv peak per cell (setting known not to overheat the cells). Been getting a consistent 15 to 18 on the same setting with a 4 cell turbo car and tuned bb motor, with much faster lap times and quite a bit more rail bashing. Have no idea how long the 340 LiPo cars are actually running, with stock or near stock motors, usually take a break long before the car does.

A lot you can do for efficiency, including simply aligning the can, or using the black end bells with the swiveling bushing, playing with the magnets and timing is also starting to show some real promise, it appears that the stock Epoch motor is still basically set up for slot cars and 12 volt operation which is why it suddenly won’t restart when you’ve stopped even though the battery isn’t dead, it just doesn’t have enough power to get the motor turning. All motors do it to some extent, but the Epoch motor is worse than it should be, even with the small battery.

crazydave

08-12-2005, 02:36 PM

I just got 8 minutes on the track using a brand new stock car with the Epoch charger and a AC power supply, Wow, that is drastically better than what I'm getting. Now I gotta figure out what I'm doing wrong.

How long did you charge on the stock charger?

I've been using batteries for now, was gonna get an AC adaptor this weekend. (I thought I had one around when I ordered, d'oh.) I hope that solves most my problem.

Sounds like there quite a bit of room for improvement in the stock motor. Can't wait 'til you got something ready for sale. Now hurry up. :p

mod_o_matic

08-12-2005, 03:12 PM

I would think 4 cell no turbo motor would be the best. As 4 cell is simple and many people can actually do it!

As for run time, i think we need to find new batteries instead of these 1/3 aaa..I am thinking of four 2/3 aa, just need to figuar out where the heck you can stuff the extra 2 long cells. I belive they give 350 mAH...good enough for at LEAST 20 minuits?

Li-poly isn't going to work in this case. Not many people have money nor the knowledge to do it. I would think if there was a possiblity of li-ion cells it would work just becuase its "cells" and the fact of less chance of over discharge.

Another thing is adding bb (ball bearings) to the diff. To have it SIT on BBs so less resitance etc etc. I would think this could get a minuit more of run time, and if there was bb for the front tyers it would ad like 3 total minuits.

Another thing is how efficent is the stock electronics? With or with out the turbo how much of the batteries current to actually getting to that little motor.

HECK! Maybe its time to look for a diffrent motor alltogether. Why? Well, a smaller moter desighned for 4.8 volts would work better would it not? Only thing is there would be no way of custom winding etc that would work.

And i hope this helps :D :cool:

epoch1-43

08-12-2005, 06:39 PM

Wow, that is drastically better than what I'm getting. Now I gotta figure out what I'm doing wrong.

How long did you charge on the stock charger?

I've been using batteries for now, was gonna get an AC adaptor this weekend. (I thought I had one around when I ordered, d'oh.) I hope that solves most my problem.

If I recall correctly (I usually only ever peak charge), the AC adapter makes a significant difference vs. charging from AAs. :)

LBRC

08-12-2005, 09:19 PM

How long did you charge on the stock charger?
That’s just plugging it in and pushing the button with the stock charger and the AC adapter.

I timed several more runs this morning all of them where just a little over 8 minutes run time with a single cycle on the Epoch charger and adapter.

There’s no substitute for a good peak charger, as soon as I put it back on the triton I’m back to 13+.

cdog4w

08-12-2005, 11:10 PM

First, to answer what I want out of a motor:

Stock? Or Turbo? - It sucks, but I'd have to say both. From what I've read, people here have multiple epoch and some will be stock, some will be turbo'd.

Three cell? Four cell? Or LiPo? - I think 4cell/lipo. I don't know much about lipos these size, but I know that lipos of the size used in 1/18's generally perform better than 3 nimh cells per lipo cell but not quite up to 4 cells. Lipos just maintain voltage under load better, but as I said, not sure on 150-300 mAh lipos (most of which don't even bother to list discharge capacity).

Run time? 5, 10, 15, how many minutes? (forever is not an option) - 10-15 should be fine

What’s more important acceleration, or top speed? - Accelleration as long as top speed is ~33% faster than stock. Like you, I will primarily be running on a foam mat track. I took the epoch out to a new track near me, its a tri-oval with a banked turn, back straight is about 35feet long. I could basically pin the throttle the whole way around with my stock epoch, I'd like a bit more speed so that turning requires a little throttle control.

Where do you want the acceleration, low end, middle, top, or even. - low is good, but as others have mentioned, middle is probably most important in racing where you *shouldn't* be slowing down enough to need low end again.

What order of preference for the above, some combinations just aren’t possible. - probably smoothness/accel first, followed by speed, followed by runtime/efficiency.

Where would you use the motor most, kitchen floor, tennis court, track? How big of an area? - foam mat track at home, currently 6x8 or so, hopefully larger soon.

it appears that the stock Epoch motor is still basically set up for slot cars and 12 volt operation which is why it suddenly won’t restart when you’ve stopped even though the battery isn’t dead, it just doesn’t have enough power to get the motor turning. All motors do it to some extent, but the Epoch motor is worse than it should be, even with the small battery.

Could this explain the stuttery low end? From my understanding, electric motors have amazing low rpm torque, but an underfed motor could do it. When designed for 12V, what is the primary alteration vs. a motor designed for 5V (ie, anything more easily changed like timing vs. somthing like magnets)?

LBRC

08-14-2005, 12:16 AM

A good deal of the stuttering is indeed the motor, but the other half of the problem is most likely the duty cycle (search ZZ forums for a detailed explanation). However I have been modding 6 brand new Legacy B4 chassis sets and these cars do not have near the same problem that some of the older cars did, especially with their turbo and LiPo mods. My assumption is that just like with the ZZ SE’s the later generation circuit board's programming has been changed.

Timing is one of the big high voltage to low voltage motor issues/problems which can be hard to fix because of the small size and standard practice of using epoxy to secure most slot arms. Remember in a little motor a small change can make a big difference, also that in an electric motor everything works together, so altering the timing alone won’t be a cure all. Magnets are a mixed blessing/problem, larger stronger magnets give the opposing rotor magnetic field a firmer platform to push off of for more torque however, at the same time they oppose change adding more magnetic drag which not only slows high end RPM but uses more current to get the motor turning at the low end. By lessening the lead time you can compensate for some of the stronger magnets pull using less current for torque at lower speeds but it significantly slows the top speed, so generally you lessen the number of turns too allowing the motor to draw more power and turn faster.

Ideally for the Epoch I would like to find a coreless DC motor similar to the larger Team Orion Micro Elite, or smaller Blue-Bird 303 servo motor, in function. This type of motor has incredible low end torque and control with almost no drag, the problem is that it is by necessity round which limits the possible size options. The current Epoch motor’s advantage is that it has great power with a very low profile.

cdog4w

08-14-2005, 05:30 AM

Good point about the coreless, hadn't even considered that. I have a TO coreless and I loved it (I got the older tab style one and the tab broke off, sigh...) So have you looked at the coreless motors from servos? I agree the roundness is an issue, but while we're on the topic of modding an epoch, why not discuss a new motor mount too :) They're also far more efficient than a classic brushless, so that would net us torque (less rotating mass to spin) and longer runtime...

Hopefully servo companies are forthcoming about which servos use coreless.

EDIT: only affordable coreless servo I found was http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXH296&P=7

Smallest dimension is 0.8", so the diameter of the can has to be less than that...

EDIT2: found another: http://www.helihobby.com/html/motors.html (search for PART#HH1551 )

arch2b

08-14-2005, 05:32 PM

this is a great thread to follow :D

i agree that a new motor pod arrangement will likely have to be considered when making something compatible to aftermarket motors. i have not taken mine apart yet but it looks like it could be made much easier for motor and diff cleaning, etc. but that is a topic for another thread ;)

LBRC

08-14-2005, 10:27 PM

EDIT2: found another: http://www.helihobby.com/html/motors.html (search for PART#HH1551 )

I’m thinking that might just be it. Looks like it could fit without too much modification, although because of the differential gear size you would probably have to use an 8 tooth pinion to clear the axle.

The $34 price tag is a bit rough especially since Helihobby is generally known to have very good prices. I occasionally get bearings from them, one of the best prices you can find on ABEC-5’s that will fit in your Mini-Z.

I think it might be worth trying, so far I’m not having much luck getting low end torque out of the square can motor, I can get you all the power in the world at mid and top, plus speeds that would rock your socks off, especially with the LiPo’s. But as far as a motor for a stock car using a stock battery that will have better torque and control at the low end with a slight boost in top speed, it just doesn’t want to cooperate. Can easily do it with batteries and a turbo but so far not a motor by itself.

I have managed a nice bb end-bell (the above red one) with tweaked brushes that is a nice improvement for the stock arm and can, it’s just a little more efficient, a hair faster at the top with nice mid range control.

cdog4w

08-15-2005, 03:14 AM

I'm eyeing some ebay coreless servo auctions, some of the larger 9xxx series futaba's. If I can score one for $10 or so, I will and then will attempt to drop it in :) There are a few $1 auctions now, but I'm not sure when or what they'll bid up to. Will watch, certainly can't hurt.

LBRC

08-15-2005, 03:41 AM

Any way you can check the motor size before you bid? Anything with a radious over 6mm or so might be a bit hard to mount.

The 5-2.4 at Helihobby is out of stock :mad:

cdog4w

08-15-2005, 09:12 AM

I look at the smallest dimension of the servo case. Most have a 0.8" width, so I'd guess 0.5-0.7" diameter for the motor...

0.6" is just over 15mm so maybe a bit too large, but could fit too... The one at helihobby is 12mm, so just a bit larger. Wonder what size screw you use to mount these tiny suckas :)

I'll post again if I win any auctions.

Monouk

08-16-2005, 07:31 AM

Reading the thread got me thinkin...if you could slim down the can of a bigger motor, like taking the can all the way off and mimicing the strap setup, couldnt you fit an even larger motor into it? Then you dont need to worry about the can hitting the axle as much and you can put something with a nice big arm in there.

Makes me wonder if its at all possible to maybe mount a 180 armature? Very big, but perhaps...?

LBRC

08-16-2005, 07:30 PM

Why? I mean even if you could get a larger rotor to work (180 would be way too big) what would it do for you?

Monouk

08-16-2005, 11:25 PM

Tons and tons of torque. Im not sure, but there definately are alot more options for 180s. Im not too sure exactly what is out there for motors in between, but there arent too many epoch sized ones that work on such low power.

ph2t

08-17-2005, 02:38 AM

I want to see pinions..... :cool:

ph2t.

arfin

08-19-2005, 02:28 AM

Yeah that's what i was asking about, but i'd also take a motor for sure.

LBRC

08-19-2005, 08:25 AM

I guess I posted it in another thread. I found 8 tooth pinions that work, a little short for the stock motor but they still make contact all you have to do is add an aditional spacer for a perfect fit. Am still looking for a 6 tooth, in hopes that by removing the spacer it too would fit.

Although I just finished a project that will rock your world, it's so big that I had to call in the big guns so you will have to wait for it's official release. I can say that it will solve your gear problem and then some.

cdog4w

08-19-2005, 06:43 PM

what a **** tease :)

130 size gearbox would make my day :)

I need to get a tiny drill/tap set and some thick alum plate to hacksaw up, but it seems if you could drill through the thick plate for axle mount holes, and then tap the bottom of the mounts so you can screw it down to a custom rear pod... it would be well possible to make your own rear pod. Suspension would be handled by the Tbar and existing spring mount of the epoch...

It'd be hella work intensive, but anyone try to fab a motor/axle mount with nothing but hand tools/dremel/drill (ie. no mill/lathe)?