A Little Double Barreled Action

[LBRC]

I’ve been having loads of fun but there doesn’t seem to be much going on in the forums so I thought I’d cheat and give a little sneak peak at some of what I’ve been working on. This is not the Max motor setup but I though someone might like it anyway.
http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album72/Back.jpg
These are prototype coreless monsters, built to order from the factory specifically with the Epoch in mind, and a nice little aluminum ball bearing motor mount to hold them, Max uses a similar mount. They have a no load speed of 21K at 3.6 volts loads of torque, can even be used with a stock circuit board, although they work better with a turbo, and are amazingly efficient, oh yea and you end up with one fast Epoch :cool: out of my way Jack :eek: .
http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album72/Gears.jpg
I’m letting the cat out of the bag here but in the near future several versions of these little coreless brutes might just show up for a “Shotgun” motor mount. That’s right you just flick open the back, shove the motors in the little round holes, and pull the trigger to blow the competition away. Sort of like the toy micro cars, only faster with a motor mount made out of a high quality ultra strong and light composite material and ball bearings of course.

[LBRC]

http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album72/SG_Prototype_Bottom.jpg
http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album72/SG_Prototype_MM.jpg
With several different versions to mach the speed and torque to a specific track, A motor change takes only seconds in the pits, hm wonder why I mentioned pit stops. http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album72/under_body.jpg

Sorry had to dubble for the photo's.

[cdog4w]

That is a work of art. Seriously, I started reaching for the credit card... Feel like letting the cat out a little further and giving us a rough pricerange? :) Gotta save up for whatever it is.

I'd still love to see a nice pan chassis design for these, could turn these into shockingly nice little cars handling wise. And they're pretty good already. Diff could be a bit smoother, but for its size... its still got a diff!

So how does a single coreless compare to the aquaspeed? Can it keep up in rpm and torque? Stock vs. turbo'd?

[arch2b]

definately awsome news :D i know i'll be watching this thread intently

[LBRC]

So how does a single coreless compare to the aquaspeed? Can it keep up in rpm and torque? Stock vs. turbo'd?

Well lets see, I just got a new set of 27K test motors so far the pair hasn’t burned up a stock motor driver IC although it gets hot. Singly one would have less torque than an Aquaspeed but once the car got up to speed it would be much faster.

With two motors the car instantly pulls away and just keeps on going, since there is much less current drain I’m not sure that it’s fair to say the car has more torque but it certainly has more usable torque. The turbo is a hard comparison, since it’s more responsive ness and acceleration/torque than speed. I have noticed that on the track any turbo car will show a significant improvement in overall lap times.

The above motor mount and car is down in Santa Maria for testing speed comparison on the large oval. I hope to have time this weekend to finish another mount and car so I can continue working on the new motors.

Price, sorry but I haven’t a clue, other than a very strong desire to see Epoch hop-ups as inexpensive and affordable as possible. I was planning on making some aluminum mounts to sell, hopefully before the holidays but time is slipping away. I would like to get a few modified chassis (i.e. replaceable battery mod, Kan-180 three cell, turbo, bb aluminum mount and coreless motors) out as soon as possible for the feedback.

I mean that I like them and am pretty sure that everyone else will too, but it would be nice to hear back from people driving and or racing to here exactly what they think and how the car actually performs for them. I was told that one of the prototype Max cars actually lapped a stock Mini-Z in six laps on a thirty foot tri-oval but since I wasn’t there I would like to hear if other people have similar experiences or if it was a one time driver dependent performance. I would especially like to hear what people think of the car at hobby shops or clubs with Mini-Z size carpet or RCP tracks.

[arch2b]

well, i have a nice track and some members with lots of modding experience. if you rinterested in reviews, let me know how to get a setup and i'll give you all the feedabck you want :p

[arch2b]

seriously, when can we expect to try these ourselves? i would love to have a cut cf chassis plate with that motor mount combo and somehow attach the front section on

[LBRC]

Unfortunately my real job, the one that gives me a place to eat and sleep(if only once a week) has been getting in the way. However I made a new motor mount last night for a the latest set of motors (27K) since the last set seemed just a little slower than I wanted, sent the car down to Apex for a test haven’t heard back yet. I do need a better way to secure the motors in the aluminum mount, a spot of CA works but a screw would be nice, unfortunately that takes a very small tap too go with the small screw, and one more piece that I’d like to do without. Have most of the mill coordinates worked out, ball bearing spacing/depth is the hardest dimension since it has to be spot on. Once I have everything just right I can do several at a time with one piece of stock, of course if I just finished the ball screw upgrade and CNC conversion it would go much faster, but then no because that would take just as long itself if not longer getting all the bugs worked out. WoLoL too much to do and not enough time.

Hopefully this latest (the 27K coreless) motor will be just right. Still waiting to hear from the gear people but if this last coreless motor set works out they will be the only significant hold up. Am printing up a new CB for the Turbo that will be a bit more compact and much easier to assemble, with luck I will have a dozen or so trial cars ready by the first of the year with:

Hot swappable battery packs, simply unplug loosen a screw and pop in a new pack.
Option Kan 180 battery pack, double charge on the epoch charger. Or 340 mAh LiPo, requires LiPo charger.
LED battery indicator (not a true voltage meter since you don’t need that with the Epoch since when the battery gets close to three volts the car is undrivable, primarily it’s a visual reminder to turn the car off , and/or show you that it is, when using the LiPo pack)
Turbo
Aluminum ball bearing dual motor mount
Final motor still a bit up in the air.

Funny you should mention a pan chassis, I know an Epoch fan with a laser we where just discussing the possibility of cutting an exact silhouette of the Epoch chassis bottom to see what could be done.

[arch2b]

definately keep us posted on development :p

i would think the chassis plate approach would be the simplest and best way to implement custom rear ends etc, not to mention cut down on weight. like you mentioned you could cutout a silouette and screw on the body mounts and front end by chopping up a stock chassis. if it can be done for 1:28 it should be able to be done for epochs as well. afterall, that's basically what a 1:32 crt is... a chassis plate with custom rear end and modified front end (the front end needs a complete redesign for the crt)

[arfin]

Great job LB! I'm loving these "sneak-peak" threads!
Hot swappable battery packs
Option Kan 180 battery pack
LED battery indicator
Turbo
Aluminum ball bearing dual motor mount
:eek: :eek:

[hobbycar]

LBRC that is really cool. I'm definately interested. This site's owner just started some GTGs here in Ann Arbor, MI where we will be running Epochs and Mini-Zs every other week on RCP Track.

Ann Arbor GTG Thread on MiniZRacer.com Forum with pics of the RCP Track (http://minizracer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19848&page=3)

If you want we'll definately test it out for you :-)

[LBRC]

I don’t think you have to worry about that, Epoch1-43 has always been up for a couple of test cars once they're ready for a public début. Even have chassis sets for his already thanks to a mutual friend ;) .

Yesterday I got a chance to test the 27K motors in a stock Epoch unfortunately they are definitely going to be a Turbo only option, once you start turning on a track the Epoch driver IC gets hot and shuts down with the 27K’s, didn’t actually toast it but it’s probably just a mater of time and I didn’t feel like pushing it.

[hobbycar]

Great to hear. I can't wait to see. Keep up the cool work LBRC.

[Steelhead]

Any word yet. :)

[LBRC]

How about a photo?

http://lbspd.com/v-web/gallery/albums/album78/Ann_Arbor_Pair.jpg

Car #1: Dual 22K motors with 7 tooth pinions.
Car #0: Dual 19K motors with 8 tooth pinions.

Both cars have upgraded steering servo motors, and Kan 180 3-cell battery packs. I will also be sending a LiPo pack since both have the ability to swap out the batteries.

Unfortunately in moving into my new little mini shop I seem to have misplaced the all important battery plugs. Edit: Found them.

It’s possible that I could find them and still make Saturday’s mail (edit; nope) but I’m thinking it will be more like Tuesday since its late, I'm tired, I still have to find the plugs, Monday is a holiday, and I don’t even no if the #1 car runs yet. (Edit: The #1 car works)

Since I’m currently sans track I have no real idea how either car will actually do, both motor and gear combo’s are new and untried on anything other than a few feet of shop floor, could be good could be bad, just have to wait and see.

When’s the next GTG.

[will3kgt]

I test drove your hopped up Epoch at the Ann Arbor races and it's simply amazing! I'll be waiting to purchase the hop-ups needed to make my Epoch this fast whenever they're for sale.

[LBRC]

Anyone in Ann Arbor tried the red motor white gear car yet?

I’d really like to know how it and the orange motor orange gear car compare on a 2+L RCP track. The Red motor car has more power at lower speeds, however with the different gearing the top end should be close, and even though it can draw more current depending on where and how that power is used it still could be more efficient in the long run. Since the motors are coreless they do not dissipate heat as fast as a standard core motor. For example if the orange motors have to push the weight of the epoch at slower speeds too much with the high gears they will heat up and over the length of a race use more battery power than the higher powered red with the lower gears would. On the other hand once its up to speed and inertia takes over it could be wonderfully efficient staying cool and saving the battery power for when it’s needed. Only one way to find out for sure and thats to drive them.

Have motor mounts and bearings just need to order motors and gears, but which one is the question.

Normally I’d just go ahead and order the higher powered red if it was just a question of batter life in a race but the dual red setup can draw up to 1.38 amps when hot under a load and that could affect the steering enough to be noticed on a track.

[hobbycar]

I tried the orange geared lipo dual motor Epoch at the last Ann Arbor GTG yesterday. It was fast. Once I got used to the speed and learned how to keep it from flipping too much on the RCP Track, I had it keeping up with the Mini-Zs driving by our "A-Main" guys (David, Chuck, & Vaughn). I have a video that will soon be up to show everyone.

That sucker was fast.

I drove the other super Epoch (white geared) but had an issue with the rear suspension (probably easy to fix but I wanted to drive instead of doing some wrench time...it was 1am in the morning).

-hobbycar